Chapter 4: Interview With The Vampire, Episode 2: "...after the phantoms of your former self"
Louis grieves the lives he'll never lead, Lestat grows frustrated of Louis' human empathy, and here opens their next chapter together.
“Memory is a monster. We forget, it doesn’t.” — Daniel Molloy
via John Irving: Your memory is a monster; you forget - it doesn't. It simply files things away. It keeps things for you, or hides things from you - and summons them to your recall with a will of its own. You think you have a memory; but it has you!
Welcome back to the second installment of my Interview with the Vampire recap for Spooky Season 2023! I hope you enjoyed the first episode discussion and episode two. If you need a refresher, please feel free to skim through my recap of episode one.
[spoilers from here on]
This episode starts in the present day with Daniel, Rashid, and Louis—in that order. Daniel observes a Venetian painting by Marius De Romanus, as Rashid points out. Daniel hasn’t heard of him, which is strange, because Daniel knows a lot. If you’re wondering why you’ve never heard of this artist, it’s because he’s another fictional character in the IWTV universe. I actually know nothing about this character, so this was a deep cut for the book fans, but we don’t need to be concerned with this right now.
What I can speak on is Daniel’s inquisitiveness with Rashid. He’s a good journalist. It almost didn’t even cross my mind to question Rashid’s presence. It makes sense that Louis, with all of his wealth at this point and otherwise seemingly alone, has a right-hand person like Rashid. It’s smart that Daniel questions their relationship even if the audience doesn’t think to. That’s what Daniel is here for; he is our bridge between the vampire and human worlds, between the monster of memory and the truth.
When we go back to the 1910s, we pick up where Lestat and Louis leave off. Louis is on his journey of death and rebirth—”blissing out post-priesticide”—presented as a metaphor for a kind of drug trip. It might be a tad cliché but it is fitting. After such a heavy first episode, it’s nice to see this excitement of a new beginning, a Louis who isn’t suffering… for now.
credit for Louis gif below here.
“Your body feels confused. Your lungs feel like water, your heart, fire. You feel as if you’re dying, because you are.” — Lestat de Lioncourt
Just the delivery of this line alone has so much strange joy behind it. We can feel his excitement in his brevity as he says this.
Louis sees Lestat with the lights behind him—a god, as Rashid refers to Louis? An angel of death? All of his senses are on the highest watt possible. This is his new awakening, foreshadowed in the first episode, and now we’re here—where our story truly begins. I appreciate that we were able to savor the seduction of Louis by Lestat in the pilot vs. the film (and book). Lestat has a lightness to him as he disposes of the priests. He’s content, he just expressed his emotions to Louis and was received and reciprocated. He’s been searching for a companion like Louis for a very long time. Lestat becomes a teacher, a mentor, and a parent of sorts to Louis. That’s usually how it goes in vampire lore. It’s fun watching them together. Lestat has a new bounce in his step, excited to teach Louis different things about vampirism, starting with the senses and hunting.
Louis mentions in his narration that now that he’s dead, he can receive the secrets of existence. This isn’t a new concept, but one that gives me pause—that humans could enjoy their human lives better after being undead. That once we lose the pressure of time, the vulnerability of our makeup, that only then can we truly savor all that life has to offer. This is obviously one major appealing aspect of these mythical beings—eternal life, as we are, but not quite as we are, something more powerful, more sexy, etc. And yet, there are so many rules and restrictions, not to mention not being able to eat food which is easily one of the best things we get to enjoy as humans, that perhaps it’s not worth it. And as Louis says, the vampire is bored, I’m sure eventually, we all would be, or tormented by our histories that grow everlong, or drown in our anxieties and over thinking. Perhaps at some point, we’d just reach nirvana and acceptance, or we’d endure loss over and over and until we couldn’t take it anymore. Either way, we could live a thousand lives in one and do whatever we wanted, fulfilling every dream with minor limits.
But the fun comes to a swift end when Louis gets his first meal and comes to. Reality hits, the high has worn off, and he realizes he needs to get back to his human responsibilities and family. While Lestat is hurt, maybe this is something he conveniently did not discuss as a consequence with Louis before turning him, that he wouldn’t be able to live with his family anymore, just like he didn’t tell Louis he couldn’t go in the sun. In Lestat’s defense, Louis didn’t exactly give him a chance, throwing Lestat to the wall, but I wonder why he let him go knowing he could die. It’s like a parent letting their children live out their own consequences. Or maybe Lestat knew Louis would come back, that he’d have another chance to be Louis’ savior.
Lestat maintains a sense of humor through it all: Careful, mon cher, you’re frightening the man. You don’t bite the blood, you suck it. It’s okay, you can be on top. I don’t like to go to bed angry. Would you prefer Rome, Wisconsin? I don’t understand how someone like that can make it onto a stage. This wit and wisdom draws us all in, not only Louis, and it reminds him and us to not take life (or death) so seriously. Look, we’re still here, relax, cuddle naked with me in this coffin. (The weirdest sentence I’ve maybe ever typed). Lestat could be a reprieve in a heavy life, a sexy mystery to solve, something Louis feels compelled to see through whether he wants to or not. It’s relatable. OR. Louis did not think this decision through, didn’t know what was really coming when Lestat made his declaration last episode, was unaware of the consequences, and now doesn’t have a choice.
Although he does tell Daniel that he got in that coffin on his own free will, Daniel challenges his perspective of events. “White master, Black student, but equals in the quiet dark,” he mocks into his microphone. “Provocation,” Louis declares, challenging Daniel on his journalistic ethos in return. They cover a lot in that scene—sexuality, race, queer theory, contemplating an animal’s death before eating it. I’ve had to rewatch this moment many times and I feel it’s an important moment but not one I’m sure how to comment on, but I feel there is something there.
We get to watch Louis reckon with his powers amongst the people closest to him—hearing their thoughts, their heartbeats. I find it really heartwarming the way Grace receives Louis, especially after the way his mother does—Grace’s love is the tether that keeps him connected to his humanity and his family. “Better you, I’d say,” she says, when she observes his differences, which must feel affirming for Louis considering his entire life has changed overnight. He’s still processing—especially in vampire time, which is slower. It’s a balm that he feels he can still have this piece of his life at this point. I think anyone would want that, and even if it doesn’t turn out how he wants it to, this is a better way to turn than most people get to, as we’ll learn soon.
This is an impactful episode showing Louis’ growth. His power grows and with it, some tension builds. He no longer has to deal with certain things in the same way. We see in his first post-human experience with racism. It’s a vile scene with this condescending man who feels the need to touch Louis while marveling at how exceptional he is—for a Black man (although his choice of words are much more demeaning). It’s cathartic for Louis to murder this man, it’s cathartic for the audience to watch. Because we already are Team Louis (or you should be!), it’s even more exciting to watch him come into a power that was not available in reality, and no longer be forced to take the shit he was used to. Lestat would be so proud!
Well, almost so proud. Killing some priests is one thing, but a man that his colleagues were working with is quite another, apparently. This moment between Lestat and Louis is tense and telling, as Lestat burns the body in their townhome’s incinerator. We learn a bit more of Lestat’s racial blindspots and Louis challenges him on some things—race, his sexuality (“non-discriminating” 😏). I think it would have helped Lestat understand if Louis hadn’t said, “He told me I did a good job,” which confuses Lestat as he’s more concerned about who they’re killing than why, for their own protection. Louis sets boundaries around Lestat getting carried away with “fledgling” in his own frustration.
With his apology later, it’s clear Louis struck a chord with Lestat, and he’s able to acknowledge it. If I’m not mistaken—Lestat never calls Louis fledgling again. As time passes, Louis and Lestat are more on an even playing field beyond the lack of telepathy now—Louis’ building wealth alongside Lestat, becoming more financially equal to his white colleagues, Fenwick and Anderson, who clearly felt ownership over him prior and are beginning to grow weary of where his power is headed. He buys The Fair Play Saloon with Lestat’s support and turns it into the more stylish Azalea Hall. He gets a taste of even more than what he had in his human life (in the same industry) and provides opportunity for women who worked for him before. How much has actually changed for Louis? I suppose for some, becoming a vampire would change everything instantly and drastically. Louis does get to keep a semblance of his prior life, which seems like something to be grateful for. Being with Lestat does give him some agency in choosing what he wants to do next.
“Ridiculous of you to mix human and vampire business. It always ends poorly. But how can I stop you? How can I say no to you?” – Lestat de Lioncourt
5-6 years have passed, and Grace’s patience with Louis’ absence is wearing thin. Who could blame her? I’d miss my brother and be hurt by his absence too. At this point, it hurts to watch Louis try. We know how it’s going to end, and Lestat is surprisingly patient that Louis is still going to see them, gently urging him to stop. That it’s a rite of passage for them all to lose people they love. This would easily be one of the hardest things about becoming a vampire for many of us, and I don’t blame Louis for wanting to continue to see his family, even if it’s only Grace at this point. This would be a difficult grief to manage, especially since the family was very close prior to Paul’s death. Louis imagined being an uncle, having his own family, and Grace and Paul being aunt and uncle to his kids. He won’t have that now, and he realizes this.
Lestat, although seeming to rush by many firsts as Louis said, is rather patient with Louis’ process. It’s been about 6 years at this point, and Lestat is sweet and comforting to Louis. Of course, he does get over things a lot quicker because he’s used to this and already processed a lot of his own human grief. Louis needs more from him, however. When Lestat thinks distracting Louis with a trip is what will resolve things, Louis pushes back. Haven’t we all been erroneously consoled by a lover with one thing when we needed something else? There’s a lot of contrast between Louis and Lestat in this episode—at times, gentle. At other times, violent. Lestat actually seemed to enjoy it when Louis threw him to the wall, and the fandom agrees that he did.
When Lestat said, “I’m your family, Louis,” that is when I saw Lestat’s patience also begin to run its course with Louis. He may not be loving Louis the way Louis needs, but in these tender moments, I can’t help but be seduced as well. I suppose Louis would feel the same, considering their ups and downs and the way he sticks around. But as we see later in the scene with the Opera singer, Louis doesn’t seem to really have a choice. Was he truly trapped, or is that his “monster memory” telling him he was? Or both? Louis then tells Daniel something that complicates all and any analysis in regards to this up to this point:
He had a way about him those early years, Lestat. Preternaturally charming, occasionally thoughtful. He was my murderer, my mentor, my lover, and my maker—all of those things at once. He didn’t choose me to be his doormat. I knew he enjoyed it when I fought back, but there was present a kind of worship on my part… As I sat there, trying to practice restraint, simmering in my indignation… Lestat seized it as opportunity to disarm me.
It’s the first time that Louis defends Lestat and seems to come away from their relationship with a more omniscient and detached viewpoint. Acknowledging both of their ways and feelings without being particularly caught up in one or the other.
There is one thing about being a vampire that I most fear above all else. And that. is loneliness. You can’t imagine the emptiness. A void, stretching out for decades at a time. You take this feeling away from me, Louis. We must stay together and take precaution and never part.
Louis doesn’t return the above sentiments in any capacity. Instead, he asks if there are other vampires around. His hand doesn’t flinch when Lestat touches it, he doesn’t caress him back. He could be taking in the moment and it’s hard to get a full read on Louis, but there is a reservation to reciprocate Lestat’s feelings, like he’s still not quite sure how he feels about him. There is a love and admiration in Louis’ retelling of events now, but his hesitation six years later is questionable and makes me wonder if the timeline is off or if it’s a writer’s flub. Or is that basically six months in vampire time? I want to say this all happened incredibly fast with someone who is erratic and dangerous—that Louis’ reservations toward this eternal love with Lestat are warranted—but it’s been six years.
We learn more about Lestat here—what “separates man from food” for him—music. Louis says, “I was moved to see he too had his human attachments.” Here is Louis being drawn to Lestat—not by his grand words of never parting, but by his own passions. This moment is another tender one between them, not only because of Louis’ admiration of Lestat’s passion, but in his gentle narration of recollection. The way Lestat is speaking to him about the music, the way Louis is gazing at him—pure romance is evoked.
“And this woman sang for us, it seemed, articulating the difficult love we often had trouble expressing ourselves.” – Louis de Pointe du Lac
But what really turns Louis off is Lestat’s anger toward the tenor. While it’s fun to watch as an audience as he pricks his finger and spots blood on the page for all the missed notes, this is not what Louis wants to face in his new reality.
I guess I’m a huge Lestat fan in this episode (or always 🤫). We get to see more of him in his day-to-day. His complexities, his humor, his desires. We see the man beyond the seduction and mystery. We learn more about who he is in his true vampire essence. It’s not all perfect, but it sure is fun to be along for the ride.
And then we get this iconic scene pulled straight (well, sorta) out of the movie:
Embrace what you are! You are a killer, Louis! — Lestat de Lioncourt
But Louis is not a killer. That’s the thing. Especially at this time. And his experience of seeing the man’s memories as he slowly dies must be something to reckon with. There is this added humanity in this show that the film doesn’t have and it shows in these smaller (but also very large) moments. I thought Sam Reid pulled that line straight out of Tom Cruise’s essence but they actually deliver them in quite different ways. The movie is forever iconic but Sam Reid is a master of Lestat. He is consistently serving c*nt (if you don’t know what this means, here, welcome to queer culture) with his portrayal and it is truly enchanting to witness—we’ll see more of it too as the episodes pass. It’s why we love this character even amidst his incredible flaws. I mean, we’re all flawed, but vampires have special~ flaws. Deeply entrenched and intense trauma flaws.
Of course Lestat is going to kill—he is a vampire, it’s what they do. And is it so wrong that he enjoys it since he has no other choice? If it’s been part of your life for centuries, I guess you have to get used to it at some point. But maybe you don’t—Louis has shown us that he still doesn’t enjoy it, although he did seem to have a moment with that fox there—his “true nature” revealing itself, Lestat might argue. Lestat needs Louis to accept this part of himself, but why? Does it trigger Lestat, making him face his own guilt of killing humans (lol, can’t be)? Or he simply doesn’t care at all and can’t empathize with Louis’ plight. In the first book, Lestat is far more cold and cruel than this TV version. He’s full of a hatred and Louis tells Daniel that every killing was revenge on the life he didn’t get to have. This is not explicitly discussed or acknowledged in the film or show—kind of simplified to Lestat just liking it, but there are deeper reasons that I think the show will get into, and it goes back to… unresolved trauma! Moral of the story: vampires need therapy too.
Quick sidenote: This has inspired me to pick the book back up and the difference between book Lestat and this show Lestat is absolutely wild. Louis describes him as the most unflattering and unappealing person, which actually makes me question Louis’ telling of events even more, although I’m not sure if that’s correct. Perhaps the film versions just make him more appealing. But if he’s absolutely so unbecoming in the books (or at least the first one—I’m 70~ pages in and greatly dislike him—he’s so much more pathetic from Louis’ perspective) then I wonder why fans love him so much. Something must change at some point.
Book Louis also loathes Lestat, at least in the beginning of the interview, and the show does touch on this when Daniel plays the tape where Louis says, “He appeared frail and stupid to me, a man made of dried twigs with a thin, carping voice.” This is STRAIGHT out of the book, and it intrigues me that although Louis described him that way, we are not seeing that visually at all. Not only is Sam Reid way too hot if they wanted that to be accurate, but we’ve seen Lestat’s sexy prowess already. So which is it, Louis! I love that the show is taking this to the next level, which tells me that there is more in later books that I clearly don’t know yet. This lore goes deep, for real.
“Lestat, completely enthralled. Myself, pretending to me.” I wonder why Louis didn’t just go to bed. They were home. Maybe he’s hungry and has nothing else better to do, but I feel like if it really bothered me, I’d just leave him to it. This is where the audience could be like, “ok, Louis,” because of the way he retells this moment, like he’s a trapped victim, which is similar to the trapped Louis of the book, but not quite the same.
This episode ends with such a vulnerable, compassionate moment of Daniel opening up to Louis about his ex-wife and her multi-colored eyebrow. The detail! Prompted by Louis, but he goes with it. It brings me back to what he said at the beginning of the episode—memory is a monster. Are we all not haunted by certain memories and what-ifs? So perhaps this episode answers my question from the first: why does Louis want to rehash this entire saga?
(Well, now I have a deeper question: What is happening in Louis’ life right now that makes him want to go through this with a more clear mind? Is he merely haunted by the memories of his and Lestat’s previous life? Is the pandemic rattling his existentialism? I’m sure they’re imprinted on each other as long as they’re alive—is Lestat even alive? Will we ever hear his version of events [👀👀👀]? I can imagine how different they might be.)
This is a moment of true connection between Daniel and Louis—perhaps one they were never able to have back in the 70s, and it’s a 180 from where they began this episode—picking each other’s words and ideas apart. Daniel seems touched by Louis’ bringing him the dessert from his memoir, perhaps a bit saddened by it as well. He closes the laptop, savoring the moment between them, and their relationship has changed, more has been trust built. The bond of recalling the relationships that forever alter our chemistry, the lens through which we view the world. Lestat clearly is this for Louis and Daniel has surely experience this in his own way.
Relationships are complex. We can know that someone isn’t right for us and still want them more than anyone. We can be a year out of an unhealthy relationship and still miss that person.
I’m recapping these episodes seriously because the content is quite serious and has a lot of serious subjects within it, but I do want to acknowledge the camp of Lestat and Louis especially created by the fandom with this show coming out now (here is a good example). How bitchy Lestat and Louis are, they are THE drama queens of their time, and I think that is shown in the series as well as the film. And we love them both, flaws and all. I don’t mean to imply that Louis is a victim here, or flawless—I think they do a great job of showing Louis’ insufferability at times that Lestat runs short on patience with, just like he did in the film (and I’m assuming the books as well).
One thing is clear: vampires are born from trauma. You don’t exactly become a vampire out of joy or something good happening in your life. It seems to either not be a choice you were able to make or you’re making it out of desperation. Louis certainly struggles with this decision instead of embracing it. For how dark this show is, there is a humor woven throughout and I think that’s what also keeps us hopeful for these two. In my heart, they are endgame, even though I wonder if they truly should be.
I guess we will find out soon…
Your turn! What did you think after episode 2? It’s only a bridge! What scenes stuck out to you? Do you think you’d be like Louis, hung up on human life, trying to maintain the thread? Do you think he’s overdoing it, a century later, or would you be haunted as well? Anyone else wondering where Lestat is in the present day? 👀 I know I am.
I thought this article would be shorter, but there is still so much lore spilling out in each scene of Louis, Lestat, and them together. Even with Daniel. What a ride! I hope you’re enjoying watching and reading along.
‘Til next week!
